# App vs Library vs Framework — what the FvRE can and can't extract **Date**: 2026-07-18 **For**: G (operator) and any future Mavis session This doc fixes a confusion I caused. I wrote "library/framework (like SnappyMail/MailSo) — None" in the which-tool-when doc, which is wrong. SnappyMail is an app. The library is **MailSo** (one part of SnappyMail). Here's the clean version. --- ## The 30-second version **APP**: I run in a browser. I have a URL. **The FvRE can extract me.** - Example: SnappyMail's webmail UI, SmartPantry, Elementor sites, Oscar AI's front-end - Tool: FvRE Component B (A, B, or C depending on what you have) **LIBRARY**: I run in PHP/JS/Python/etc. I have no URL. **The FvRE cannot extract me.** - Example: MailSo (the IMAP/SMTP engine inside SnappyMail), React, jQuery - Tool: There isn't one — the FvRE is for web UIs **FRAMEWORK**: I'm a structure for building apps. I have a URL (sometimes) but extracting me gives you the UI, not the API surface. **The FvRE can extract my UI, not my API.** - Example: WordPress (the framework) hosts Elementor (a plugin), SnappyMail's backend (the framework) hosts MailSo (a library) - Tool: FvRE for the UI, hand-extract for the API --- ## What SnappyMail actually is SnappyMail is a **webmail app** that includes a **library** and uses a **framework pattern**: ``` ┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ SnappyMail Webmail App (runs in a browser) │ │ ┌──────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ │ │ UI: HTML/CSS/JS — login, inbox, compose │ │ │ │ This is what you SEE when you open it │ │ │ │ THIS IS APP TERRITORY │ │ │ │ FvRE can extract this │ │ │ ├──────────────────────────────────────────────┤ │ │ │ Backend: PHP code that handles accounts, │ │ │ │ sessions, settings storage │ │ │ │ This is the FRAMEWORK part │ │ │ │ FvRE extracts the UI, not the API │ │ │ ├──────────────────────────────────────────────┤ │ │ │ MailSo: PHP library for IMAP/SMTP/MIME │ │ │ │ No URL, no UI, just classes │ │ │ │ THIS IS LIBRARY TERRITORY │ │ │ │ FvRE cannot extract this │ │ │ └──────────────────────────────────────────────┘ │ └────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ ``` **SnappyMail as a whole = an APP.** Most people mean this when they say "SnappyMail." **MailSo inside SnappyMail = a LIBRARY.** This is the IMAP/SMTP engine. **SnappyMail's own backend (account management, settings) = a FRAMEWORK pattern.** --- ## Concrete examples | Thing | Category | FvRE can extract? | What you'd get | |---|---|---|---| | SnappyMail running at https://mail.example.com | APP | YES (Tool A or C) | Recipe for the webmail UI | | MailSo (the PHP classes in `app/libraries/MailSo/`) | LIBRARY | NO | — | | WordPress running at example.com | APP | YES (Tool A + elementor-adapter) | Recipe for the WordPress site | | React (the JS library your app uses) | LIBRARY | NO | — | | SnappyMail's account-management code | FRAMEWORK | NO (without code-reading) | — | | SnappyMail's login screen (UI) | APP (part of the whole app) | YES | Recipe for the login form | | SnappyMail's IMAP connect behaviour | LIBRARY behaviour | NO (without code-reading) | — | | SmartPantry (the whole SPA) | APP | YES (Tool C, 95.82% proven) | Recipe for the whole app | | SmartPantry's localStorage schema | DATA (not a thing) | NO | — | | Elementor website | APP | YES (Tool A + elementor-adapter) | Recipe for the website | | An npm package (any) | LIBRARY | NO | — | --- ## What this means for FreshCloud Mail Our goal: build a FreshVibe-style webmail inside Oscar (the groupware layer). What we want from SnappyMail: | What we want | Category | How to get it | |---|---|---| | How the inbox view looks | APP UI | FvRE (Tool A or C on a running SnappyMail URL) | | How the compose form works | APP UI | FvRE | | How the email view shows MIME parts | APP UI | FvRE | | How IMAP connect works (sequence, errors, retries) | LIBRARY behaviour | **Hand-extract** (Component H, like SmartPantry) | | How SMTP send works | LIBRARY behaviour | **Hand-extract** | | How MIME parsing works | LIBRARY behaviour | **Hand-extract** | | How accounts are stored (per-user, encrypted) | FRAMEWORK pattern | **Hand-extract** + new design for multi-user | | How login sessions work | FRAMEWORK pattern | **Hand-extract** + new design | **The FvRE gives us the UI shapes.** Hand-extraction gives us the behavioural layer. The hand-extraction is what we did for SmartPantry — read the source, write recipe.json files with the 5 fields (behaviour/data/key_functions/files/tests). **Total effort for the full FreshCloud Mail extraction:** - 1 day: Deploy SnappyMail locally, run fv-extract against it (Tool A or C) — produces structural recipes for the UI - 1-2 days: Identify the 12-20 behavioural modules in MailSo (IMAP connect, folder list, message fetch, search, SMTP send, etc.) - 1 week: Hand-extract each module into a recipe.json (behaviour/data/key_functions/files/tests) — the SmartPantry shape that worked - 2-3 days: Hand-extract the framework patterns (accounts, sessions) and add the multi-user + world-class deltas - 1-2 weeks: Build a generator that consumes the recipes → FreshVibe Way v8 components - 1 week: Run the generator, sample-review the output, write tests **Total**: 4-5 weeks, ~80-120 hours Mavis + ~25-40 hours GLM (free). --- ## The corrected line in the which-tool-when doc Old (wrong): > | A library/framework (like SnappyMail/MailSo) | None — these aren't web UIs | New (correct): > | **The webmail UI of SnappyMail** (the running app) | **Tool A or C** | It's a web app, has a URL | > | **The MailSo library** (IMAP/SMTP classes inside SnappyMail) | None — it's a PHP library, not a web UI | Hand-extract behavioural recipes (like SmartPantry) | > | **The SnappyMail backend** (account mgmt, sessions, settings) | None — extractable only by reading source code | Hand-extract framework patterns | --- ## The mental model to keep When you ask "should I FvRE this?", ask: 1. **Can I open it in a browser at a URL?** If yes, FvRE can extract it. 2. **Is it just code in a repo with no UI of its own?** If yes, FvRE can't extract it — hand-extract the behaviour. 3. **Is it both (like SnappyMail)?** Split it: FvRE for the UI, hand-extract for the library/framework parts. SnappyMail is BOTH. The FvRE handles the UI half. Hand-extraction handles the library/framework half. Both go into the same Recipe Book.